Justice League 2017 A.... discussion.

This was written several years ago for another site and has been reposted here with some updated writing.This was written several years ago for another site and has been reposted here with some updated writing.

I’m writing this having not seen the Snyder Cut just yet as I wanted to refresh my memory to do a comparison between the two after. This one was a bit odd for me to rewatch because I ended up changing my stance a bit. On the previous three recaps I went in and came out with largely the same opinions, maybe moving the dial here and there on my internal rating but overall didn’t change much, however this one I went from not really liking it to enjoying it.

I think I know why, I think it’s about investment. At the time this came out there was a whole maelstrom of tension and drama around the Snyder movies. People were being very toxic about the films on both ends of the spectrum. I didn’t personally interact with a lot of Snyder fans, but I’ve definitely heard of their jackassery. However, what I did personally interact with were the ones who didn’t like the films.

Anytime I tried to discuss what I liked about the films people kept pearl clutching and shutting me down. They’d act like there was no redeeming value whatsoever to the films and be a stone wall of discourse. Sure no one ever actually said the words “you’re not allowed to like this” but when the response is that negative every time you mention it then that’s sure as hell how it feels. This wasn’t helped by those that went further and would insult or mock those that like the films including questioning their sanity.

Then behind the scenes Snyder stepped down from the film because his daughter died and Joss Whedon stepped in. The response to that was honestly pretty gross. People almost seemed to celebrate how that went down. Further, Joss hadn’t been 100% outed as a creep just yet but people had definitely said things and kinda like JK Rowling the evidence was in the writing all along.

So, it makes sense that I went into this demanding more, expecting more and wasn’t happy with what I got. I know I’m getting personal but that’s what these recaps are, they’re personal, they’re my take, me having my say and trying to explain why I like these films and why I think people are wrong about them. So, lets talk about the film itself.

As mentioned, Snyder was part way through making this when he had a personal tragedy and had to step down. In response WB brought in Joss Whedon, and as much as I don’t personally like Whedon the move made sense. WB wants Avengers, they want what Marvel has been doing and the money they’ve been making and therefore they bring in the guy who was behind the 2 first Avengers film. The problem is they didn’t start over or just have him finish, they tried to have some sort of half-baked recut, it felt like someone had punched holes in a wall and then plastered over them with a different color. The wall is technically complete but not quite the same.

There are parts I can tell were added after, parts where they clearly added jokes for the sake of having jokes. Some of them work, some of them don’t. There are times where I go “yup that’s got Whedon’s fingerprints all over it”. Example, after they resurrect Superman there’s the fight scene where he wipes the floor with the rest of the League. Now this scene I really like because it’s a very chilling scene that shows how level or unlevel the playing field is and gives Flash a bit of a chance to shine given how well he does in terms of rookie vs veteran. However, after the scene there is a shot with Bruce on the ground making a quip that “something is bleeding”. Given that it’s Bruce on his own with no one else and it’s just kinda spliced in I feel like this was something Whedon filmed and added in after to lighten the mood. I think that was the wrong choice, sometimes you want the mood to not be light, sometimes you want it to be dark, and I think that was the point where it should have been dark before the film rebounded and the team came together.

This doesn’t mean we can’t have humor, there’s plenty of humor in the film that works. For example, Barry’s awkwardness with meeting Diana or joining the team because he needs friends? Excellent delivery, worked in a good spot at that point to keep it light before the tension was going to build.

It really reminds me of another DC property, Legends of Tomorrow, a television show about a team of time travelling fuck ups. The show has a very light tone overall, in fact sometimes too light. There’s an episode where one character’s father dies but rather than have a somber note, it’s the musical episode and we interrupt the funeral with a Bollywood dance number. It’s not the tone that fits the scene.

Then there’s the choice of the Russian family. The movie decides that we need to interrupt the story to follow this random family of bystanders in the danger zone. This honestly feels like filler, it really adds very little to the story. It felt like Whedon didn’t really know what to do with the material he was given and tried to just spackle in some jokes and gave us a basic civilian in danger thread to follow.

Ok but what do I like about this film?

First off is easily the cast, I’ve already spoken about Alfred, Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman but here we add JK Simmons as Commissioner Gordon, Ezra Miller as Barry Allen, Jason Momoa as Arthur Curry, and Ray Fisher as Victor Stone, overall excellent performances out of every single one of these actors. Ezra really stands out in the film but the film makes a point of following him heavily. I think this is where I have to bring it up, but Ray Fisher was treated like shit on the set by Joss Whedon and Geoff Johns. Fuck them, Fuck WB for covering for them and fuck any racist pieces of crap who go after Ray.

(Present writer here: please note this was written before we knew Ezra was an asshole)

The interaction between the cast was great, the banter and dialogue overall I really liked. I appreciate that Bruce calls out Wonder Woman being in the shadows which is a big problem I have with the Snyderverse and I wish we’d have more time with this group.

The action again was solid, the fights versus Steppenwolf were really well done. One important thing about action scenes is you need to understand what’s happening and it was clear where everyone was at every moment.

Oh, and as a fan of the comics I actually appreciate how Superman acted post resurrection, felt almost like a reference to the Lazarus pits used to keep Ra’s Al Ghul alive and how they cause a state of violent rage after use.

What didn’t I like?

Steppenwolf was less a villain and more just a brick wall. There wasn’t much to him.

The Russian family, cut them and give us more time with Steppenwolf to make him more interesting.

Certain jokes that I'm pretty sure Whedon added. Calling Lois thirsty, having the news play someone talking about aliens and anal probes, can we stop with those jokes? you know that's basically a rape joke right? Oh, and I know it was Whedon who had Barry fall on Diana's boobs, it was taken directly from Age of Ultron, does anyone ever think to ask the actress if they're ok with those scenes? because... consent under threat of contract violations is not consent.

Superman was actually too strong at the end, he overshone the other heroes and made them feel superfluous, especially Barry. Let Barry have his moment saving people rather than make Superman carry the apartment building.

How do I feel?

Overall, I liked the movie this time, being less invested helped me roll with the flaws better and it came out at decent but I can’t help but feel disappointed. I think I’ve explained at this point that I liked the Snyderverse so I am disappointed it’s being discarded. I don’t think WB knows where it’s going with the movies yet but it’s pretty clear they want to move away from this. I still think there’s value to these movies and they’ve got a solid cast to work with. I wish the fan response hadn’t basically driven a couple actors away, I wish Ray Fisher had been treated better and that he was coming back as cyborg. I wish we were moving forward.

I think that there’s an arc the films that could work to bring in a lighter tone. The first phase of the movies is about how the world feels lost and there’s little hope, especially after the death of Superman. In Justice League Superman comes back and brings hope with him, his presence slowly makes the world brighter and overall inspires other heroes to act and that can then transition into movies of a lighter tone and giving people what they want without ditching all the work that has been done. However, I’ve accepted we’re largely not getting that, that it’s gonna be years before I see a live action Justice League sitting at that round table, same thing for the TV series, DC loves to tease us with things but never actually deliver. However, maybe I’m wrong, maybe there is hope for something going forward. Prove me wrong DC and do right by your actors.

(Again present writer here with another note. I'm leaving the original sentiment there but I've largely accepted at this point it probably is better to wipe the slate clean and move on with new iterations of these characters. I do wish some of the actors had gotten more time in these roles though.)